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Matthew David Oldfield’s statements re the night of 3rd May 2007 #McCann

June 3, 2011

Matthew David Oldfield

THE 9:05pm CHECK

(4 May 2007 statement)

That around 9.05pm:

  • the interviewee went to the area of the apartments. Notably to the area near the windows of all the children’s bedrooms. That he did not hear any noise. That he considered that all the children were sleeping.
  • That all the children’s bedroom windows were closed, notably the windows that gave access to the fourth apartment, that occupied by Madeleine.
  • That after this check, he returned to the restaurant, saying that all the children were asleep. However, Gerry, Madeleine’s father, went to the area of the apartments to check for himself if the children were asleep.
  • That Gerry allegedly went into his apartment and that he checked to make sure that Madeleine and the twins were sleeping in their bedroom, where it was quite dark. The bedroom door was half-open. That five minutes later, Gerry came back to the group in the restaurant. In answer to a question from the inspector, the interviewee does not know if Gerry met anyone while he was checking the children. He did not mention it.

Alby’s Translation

  • Benefiting from meeting them next to the residences, he adds that, on his own initiative, he made a “listening check” at the bedroom window of MBM and the twins at 21h05. That he limited himself to approach the bedroom window on the outside of the apartment to check if the children were crying or awake. 
  • He adds to have not heard any noise nor perceived anything out of the ordinary. He went on to do the same check at the bedroom windows of his daughter and ROB’s daughters.
  • About 5/10 seconds after the checking he returned to the restaurant seeing that all other group members were already there.
  • They proceeded to order dinner [immediately] after which GM went to his apartment to check his children.

Rogatory Interview April 2008

  • So I went and listened, I went, I found the time, because we’d only just been in there about fifteen minutes ago, and I just listened outside her shutters, so I just passed along that wall that goes to the two, sort of to the McCANN’s apartment, so I listened outside our shutters and went along to their shutter and had a listen out there, not because I’d been asked to, but, or it’s not the sort of thing you think about, it’s just kind of, erm,”
  • 00.12.06 4078 “You thought you might as well?”
  • Reply “So I thought I might as well and I can report back and they can be, you know, be reassured that everything was okay. And we talked a lot in the previous interviews about what state the shutters were in, whether they were, and they were all definitely down, there’s three shutters, you know, there’s, you know, two, and they’re all at the same level, there was no, I would have noticed if they were, if one was up and the rest were down, it would have looked odd”.
  • 4078 “What was the lighting like around that area at that time?”
  • Reply “It’s getting dusk, erm, by that time, but not completely dark, erm, it was not as dark as it got later on (inaudible) visibility”.
  • 00.12.40 4078 “And you said that, obviously you spoke about some previous interviews?”
  • Reply “Yeah”.
  • 4078 “And you are confident the shutter was down?”
  • Reply “Yeah, absolutely”.
  • 4078 “How close would you have got to the shutter?”
  • Reply “I’d have been about a foot away, because, I mean, the shutters, you’re not sure how well you’re going to hear something through, so my ear wouldn’t have been pressed against the two, but, erm, it would have been sort of about a foot or so”.
  • 4078 “And how long would you have listened for outside that particular window?
  • Reply “Erm, five or ten seconds”.
  • 4078 “It is long enough, presumably, for you to have stood still, so that you weren’t making a noise yourself?”
  • Reply “Yeah, you’d have been fairly comfortable that you’d have heard somebody if they were sort of crying or sort of whimpering”.
  • 4078 “And did you notice anybody else around?”
  • Reply “No, there was nobody, you don’t, you can’t see the doorway from that point because it’s round a, you have to go round the corner, so not into that, I didn’t go into that area, but I didn’t hear anything, I didn’t see anything”.

Kate’s Book

  • No mention of Matthew’s 9:05pm auditory check

    THE 9:25pm CHECK

(4 May 2007 statement)

At around 9.25pm,

  • the interviewee went into his apartment and Madeleine’s apartment to check on the children.
  • He states that the door of the fourth apartment (room?), that was occupied by Madeleine and the twins, was half-open and that there was enough light in the bedroom for him to see the twins in their cots.
  • That he couldn’t see the bed occupied by Madeleine, but as it was all quiet, he deduced that she was sleeping.
  • That the light in question was from an artificial source but not inside the bedroom, rather from outside through the bedroom window.
  • That it seemed to him that the shutters of the bedroom window were open without knowing if the window was also open.
  • The apartment has two bedrooms, a lounge, a small kitchen and a bathroom. The couple’s bedroom has a window which is visible from the restaurant. The children’s bedroom windows look out on the road outside the tourist complex. Then the interviewee went back to the restaurant.
  • He states that the bedroom has two windows. The twins occupy two cots placed in the middle of the room and Madeleine occupies a bed pushed against the wall, facing the wall which has the two windows that look out onto the outside of the complex. That the door through which he entered the apartment was closed but not locked.
  • That he doesn’t know if it is usual for Madeleine’s parents to leave the door closed but not locked because that door is visible from the restaurant.
  • The interviewee thinks that it is a kidnapping with the intention to demand a ransom from the parents, because these are people who are very comfortable financially.

Alby’s Translation

  • Some minutes later, at 21h25, the deponent went to his apartment to do a further check, he having done that together with ROB who intended to do the same with his two girls.
  • At that time he offered [made himself available] to perform a check in the bedroom of MBM.
  • Questioned about his motives for such a check, going against the prevailing/established procedure, or – why would two people have gone to check the three apartments (in this case the witness and ROB going to check their own apartments and that of GM), the deponent explained that both [men] had suggested that KM remain in the restaurant [they] assuming the responsibility of verifying the children.
  • To this end, he took the quickest route between ROB’s apartment and the side garden gate entrance to the rear patio of the McCann residence, to which he gained access through the glass sliding door into the apartment lounge. The door was closed but not locked as KM had said it would be.
  • That he did not enter the bedroom where MBM and the twins were sleeping. He recalls that the bedroom door was half open, making an angle of 50 degrees.
  • He does not know how far away he was from the bedroom door. He recalls having the perception that the window curtains – green in colour – were drawn closed but could not determine if the window was closed or open.
  • Concerning the external blinds he clarifies that he did not see if it was closed or open. He recalls having thought that in that bedroom there was more brightness than there was in his daughter’s room (where the external blinds were always fully closed), adding to have had the feeling that that light was coming from the outside – making the point that both were turned in the same direction.
  • Consequently, he admits the possibility of the light he was perceiving was owing to the blinds being raised, denying however that he was capable of assessing the height at which it may have been.
  • The question asked, he was sure that, at the time of his first being in the vicinity of MBM’s bedroom, reported as 21h05 in the course of which he had approached the the window of that bedroom from the outside for the purpose of an auditory check, the blinds were, in his view, fully closed.
  • Consequently, he is convinced that at the time of the second check the blinds were more open than on the first check, given that he considers that the light inside the bedroom, undoubtedly coming from the outside, could not have been coming through it [the blinds] if they had been fully closed.
  • Following on, convinced that everything was within normality, given that he perceived no noise to make him think otherwise, and further, due to, in his mind, having managed to glimpse the two twins inside their cots, the deponent returned to the restaurant to finish dinner.
  • Asked, he clarifies to not have seen MBM lying on the bed in the bedroom because from where he was during the check he had no sight of that bed.
  • The question asked, he relates that he thinks he returned to Tapas between 21h25 and 21h30, telling the others in the group that he found everything within normality in the residential block.
  • The question asked, he clarifies not having told MBM’s parents the facts of having found the door half-open, estimating it about 50 degrees, and having perceived the above mentioned brightness inside [the room], he related not having done it because he didn’t attach any relevance to them [the facts].
  • Asked, he relates that, at that time, he rejoined the table of travelling friends, all except ROB who stayed in his apartment due to the indisposition his daughter.
  • The question asked, he relates that, due to the large size of the whole group, comprising nine adults (four couple and FP’s mother), the deponent and the others always occupied the same table because it was the only one that could handle so many people.
  • Asked, he relates that, from where that table was positioned the group would have sight of the apartments they were occupying.
  • Nevertheless, he admits that it was a tenuous sight considering the distance to the apartments (estimated as about 50 to 100 metres), and further, due to their vision being impaired by a transparent oilcloth [tarpaulin] that covered the area in which the tables were located.
  • Consequently, he admits it being possible for someone to have entered the ground-floor apartments without being detected, through [by way of] the patios that were round the back of the residential block.
  • By the way, he clarifies that that news had been communicated to all the friends who were in the Tapas by KM subsequent to her having personally been to her flat to check that her children were well.
  • The question asked, he relates that she had gone there alone to do that at 21:50.
  • On the other hand he relates that only those adults who were part of their group met for dinner at their table.
  • By the way, he denied that at any time did any individuals named IRWIN form part of the table, refuting equally that he had made the acquaintance of anyone so named.

Rogatory Interview April 2008

  • “Erm, so I went to check on G***e and I stood up and Russell stood up and said he was going to go and check as well and Kate stood up and I said, you know, do you want us to go and check on, erm, do you want me to go and check on your kids, erm, and she said yes.
  • And I think I offered at that point just because we had been together all week and we had similar routines and it just kind of seemed like a nice thing to do that would save her a journey back up and, you know, it may or it may not have been different. But, erm, I said that and she said yeah fine and she said that the patio door was open and go in through there.
  • And there was me and Russell as well, so, erm, you know, it seemed, at the time, a very reasonable thing to do, even though it was the first time that we’d certainly done it.
  • Also, having somebody else there with me, it sort of felt sort of more, more sort of natural and normal.
  • So we went out and we debated about whether we’d go in first or go in later, but Russell wanted to get back because E**e had been a little bit unsettled and so we went back first and he went in and I went in to check on G***e and actually went in through the door, unlocked the door, looked in, into her room, all fine, came back out, shut the door, erm, went over to his apartment and he said that E**e had been sick so he was staying back with her.
  • So I went back and did the check on five ‘A’, on Madeleine and the kids, erm, and went back through the patio entrance, so through the gate, through the patio doors, erm, there was, it was light enough to see through the apartment and there sort of a little table light on the right at the end of the sofa and when you walk into the room, you could see straight into it, because the door was open.
  • Erm, I’ve spent a lot of time debating how far the door was open, from previous questioning, and, you know, it wasn’t flat back against the wall, because that would have looked odd, it was just sort of halfway open, so it seemed slightly unusual that it should be so wide open, because you could see straight into the middle of the room from the angle that you approach it, because the, you’ve got sofas here and you’ve got a bookcase here and you have to come out, you’ve got sort of the wall of the bedroom and then it goes back where the bathroom is and then comes out again, so you’ve got to come out round this wall to sort of, not out round this wall, but you come in and the doorway is sort of recessed, so you can see pretty much straight into the room from the doorway back or certainly as soon as you get past that final wall.
  • So it seemed odd to have that door open, it’s certainly not something that, you know, G***e has it completely pitch black, because it seems to me that she sleeps a bit longer, erm, but some people do leave the door open and I know Russell and Jane, for E**a, and L*** subsequent, also has the door slightly open, you know, they have light and they prefer that, but we’ve never done that with G***e, so it seemed a little bit odd, but not without the realm of possibility.
  • So I approached the room but I didn’t actually go in because you could see the twins in the cots and one of the, you could see the twins in the cots because they’re in with, sort of the cots were in the middle of the room with sort of a gap of about sort of maybe a foot between the two, the cots had sort of got that fabric end and sort of a mesh side, so you could see the sides and you could see them, erm, see them breathing and there were two there and it was all completely quiet.
  • And the other things you could see in the room, there was a, there was another bed at the back underneath the window at the far side and you could see the end of the bed, another bed here. And because I was looking for, you know, well people say, well why didn’t you go in the room, why didn’t you check on Madeleine, you were, you said you’d go and check, but it was just that, we were just satisfying ourselves that nobody was upset and awake and crying, we didn’t expect that if I checked each three beds somebody, it just wasn’t sort of something that you thought about, you just thought, you know, is somebody, you know, upset, do they want their mum or something, you can say, you know, somebody might have vomited and you wouldn’t know about it, but there was, you know, nobody was awake, you thought, if something, just one, it’d be, it’d sort of feel a bit odd, you know, from the draughts, you know, when Kate went in something about the door shutting, there was, I presume, a through draught.
  • So I just sort of went towards the doorway, I didn’t step over the threshold, I didn’t see Madeleine and I didn’t check, I turned round and came back out, said all was quiet when I got back to the table and then we went on with food.
  • Now the room was, we talked also in the interviews about how light the room was and whether I could see the shutters, and I can’t see the shutters because the curtains were shut and, they’re similar curtains to the ones you’ve got in there, and you just get an impression of just like green and yellow, but they were closed, they weren’t sort of blowing about, because I’m sure I’d have noticed if there was sort of movement like that. But the room seemed light, and we spent a lot of time talking about this, whether it could be light coming in from the street outside, but there was a light behind us in the room and for some reason I thought, I got the impression of light coming through the doorway from behind me, which his why I said that I thought perhaps the moon was out, erm, but there as no sort of, you know, it’s a questions of whether, there was no sort of slats of light coming through the back that particularly caught my eye.
  • So I didn’t specifically see the shutters and I couldn’t say that they were definitely open, but certainly the curtains were shut and everything was quiet”.
  • 00.29.11 4078 “So you weren’t, just to clarify what you have said, you weren’t conscious of any draught?”
  • Reply “Yeah”.
  • 4078 “The curtains were drawn and weren’t blowing around?”
  • Reply “Yeah”.
  • 4078 “You weren’t conscious of light coming through that window but the room was light enough for you to see into it?”
  • Reply “Yeah. I mean, the difficult thing about that is, when we talked about it afterwards, I agonised for whether it seemed as though there was light coming through the room. And I have to say my answer then was probably more accurate, in that, the room was lighter than I expected but I definitely didn’t see the shutters up, the curtains were definitely not disturbed and the shutters would have had to have been completely up, I presume, not to get that sort of, because they were shutters that went solid but when you lifted them they had gaps of light, and I wasn’t aware of that and it may well be that the light was just the source from behind”.
  • 00.29.03 4078 “Obviously you have had cause to sort of reflect on that, that moment?”
  • Reply “Yeah”.
  • 4078 “A lot?”
  • Reply “Yeah”.
  • 4078 “At the time when you were there, before you had reason to reflect on it, at the time you just said to me that the room was lighter than you expected, did that go through your mind at the time?”
  • Reply “Yeah, erm, it just seemed, it just seemed odd, because, you know, it’s really difficult, I can’t explain why it was odd and I didn’t do anything about it, and it’s something I’ve thought about over and over again, you know, surely that just seemed odd and so it was worth you looking round and going a bit further, and I can’t explain why I didn’t do it”.
  • 4078 “Why did it seem odd?”
  • Reply “Because I sort of see them dealing, they seemed to have dealt with Sean and Amelie and Madeleine pretty much the way we deal with G***e, so they were sort of very consistent with bedtime and rooms, I would imagine, would be kept sort of fairly dark, they seemed to have come from the same sort of parenting school that we did, and so, erm, it seemed a little bit more unusual that it should be, the door should be open so much and the light, because they were always, the kids were always sort of really confident and they were the least misbehaved, well not misbehaved, they were the least upset when they dropped them off at Nursery, at crèche, you know, it was all really good and it was all sort of, they were sort of very good at, erm, you know, if they did something wrong, they said no and sort of explaining it properly and why, you know, why it was naughty to do that sort of thing, it was all sort of very appropriate and almost by the book, and it seemed a bit sort of casual to sort of like leave the door open, but then they had sort of an older daughter, so you know, and older children might get, you know, nightmares, so it seemed as though there might be a reasonable explanation, but although I thought it was odd at the time, I didn’t say, you know, do you normally leave your door or anything like that”.
  • 00.30.42 4078 “You just put it down to the fact that, well you were a bit surprised that is how they had left it, but that must be how they are used to doing it?”
  • Reply “Yeah, and I just don’t know why it didn’t trigger enough of a thought in my mind to say, you know, but I think it’s just because you are going expecting that the worst that was going to happen was that somebody would be upset or out of bed or, you know, or sort of crying”.
  • 4078 “And, like you have said, you know, we all do things differently, don’t we, in something like that?”
  • Reply “You know (inaudible) stuff and you think, you know, oh it’s silly that they didn’t notice that or, you know, it was obvious that, but I think it’s your sort of frame of mind that you’re set in”.
  • 4078 “Yeah, and with hindsight it is easy to question things that you had no cause to question?”
  • Reply “Yeah, because normally we’d think we’re fairly observant because, I mean, we do medicine, so we sort of pick up a lot clues from people that we talk to and, you know, and how they might feeling or what they might not be saying and so you’d expect to trust that sort of, that sort of instinct, but that, for whatever reason, just didn’t”.
  • 4078 “And how do you feel about that?”
  • Reply “Erm, I mean, I think it’s harder for Jane in a lot of ways than it is for me, but I think we’re in slightly similar positions, in that, she thinks, well, you know”.

 

Kate’s Book

Page 69

  • We mentioned to the others what Madeleine had said that morning. Obviously, we didn’t want any of our children waking and wondering where we were even for a few minutes, and if the chances of that happening seemed remote, it was enough of a concern to make us absolutely prompt with our checks on the kids. That is why Gerry and I were subsequently able to be so accurate about timings. After ordering his food, Gerry left to do the first check just before 9.05 by his watch. He entered the apartment via the patio doors and noticed almost immediately that the children’s bedroom door was further ajar than it had been.

Page 71

  • At 9.30pm I stood up to go and make our second check. Almost simultaneously, Matt got to his feet to see to Grace. As his apartment was right next door, he offered to look in on our three while he was there. I hesitated. I was quite happy to go myself but it seemed a bit silly to insist when Matt was going anyway. ‘Oh, OK, then. My turn next.’ When Matt returned he reassured us, ‘All quiet!’

 

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Oldfield and Oldfield

May 30, 2011

 

On the left is Dr Matthew Oldfield, consultant endocrinologist and friend of Kate and Gerry McCann.

On the right is Mr Adrian Oldfield, Senior IT specialist with Ernst & Young and a Member of the Board of Directors of PACT, the charity founded by Lady Catherine Meyer. A recent addition to the Board of Directors of PACT is Jim Gamble, late of CEOP.